I'm back from overseas. I was surprised to find a refund when I returned. National Fitness deposited $211.80 on 11/28/07. I haven't received a follow-up call from Richmond Fitness, but I'm not surprised about that.
My regularly scheduled draft occurred mid-month, so it will be interesting to see if National Fitness attempts to draft my account again later this month. I don't believe they will. I have my ducks in a row, and they know it. There are plenty of others out there who haven't taken the care that I've taken.
I'm not sure if I'll continue my campaign or not. So far, I've received almost no response from this blog, which is surprising given that my page rank is pretty high on the search engines. I don't think that many people make the connection between National Fitness and their local gym.
I'll probably write a letter to the Utah Attorney General later this week.
I sent a follow-up email to my bank and they have closed my case.
For the record, Richmond Fitness officially received my letter (according to USPS tracking number 0306 0320 0003 6128 8880) on 11/21/07 and National Fitness received my letter (tracking number 0306 0320 0003 6128 8712) on 11/21/07.
Monday, December 10, 2007
Tuesday, November 27, 2007
So Far, No Good
I haven't had time to post in the last few days and I won't have time to post again in the next week or so because I'll be out of town.
I did want to mention that I received a follow-up voicemail yesterday from Nicole at Richmond Fitness. I called her today. She wanted to know if I'd received a refund from National Fitness. Of course, I haven't, and I let her know. She said she'd follow up with them.
I'm encouraged that Nicole called, but I'm not at all surprised that I haven't received a refund.
I also received a message from my bank on Sunday, 11/25. It reads:
"This message is regarding your previous e mail correspondence.
A Reg E has been filed and i have not seen any further charges or any credit from National Fitness as soon as they will credit, the amount will be posted to your account."
I'll post again next week.
I did want to mention that I received a follow-up voicemail yesterday from Nicole at Richmond Fitness. I called her today. She wanted to know if I'd received a refund from National Fitness. Of course, I haven't, and I let her know. She said she'd follow up with them.
I'm encouraged that Nicole called, but I'm not at all surprised that I haven't received a refund.
I also received a message from my bank on Sunday, 11/25. It reads:
"This message is regarding your previous e mail correspondence.
A Reg E has been filed and i have not seen any further charges or any credit from National Fitness as soon as they will credit, the amount will be posted to your account."
I'll post again next week.
Wednesday, November 21, 2007
Success?
I received a call from Nicole Fleming (804-965-5300 x118). According to her, she is a CSR representing American Family Fitness.
Nicole said that she received my letter, she spoke with National Fitness and that NFFS will be refunding the amounts they removed from my account without my authorization and the $100 cancellation fee. She also said that the "people I spoke with" at National Fitness will be counseled. She was very chipper.
Excuse me if I'm skeptical.
I checked my account, and I don't see a deposit pending, but that doesn't mean a transaction hasn't occurred.
Even if they have refunded my money, I'm not sure that I'm going to drop this. I don't believe that what National Fitness did was an accident...not based on what I've seen on the Internet. I feel like I was smart and/or cautious enough to fix this for myself, but there are a lot of people who may not be so lucky.
I'm also not convinced that American Family Fitness isn't culpable. I have to say, I'm surprised that they were so willing to fix this problem, and that they were able to wield the power to do so.
Hmmm...I'll have to sleep on it. I'll take the day off for Thanksgiving. But I may be back on Friday. This could be my new hobby.
Nicole said that she received my letter, she spoke with National Fitness and that NFFS will be refunding the amounts they removed from my account without my authorization and the $100 cancellation fee. She also said that the "people I spoke with" at National Fitness will be counseled. She was very chipper.
Excuse me if I'm skeptical.
I checked my account, and I don't see a deposit pending, but that doesn't mean a transaction hasn't occurred.
Even if they have refunded my money, I'm not sure that I'm going to drop this. I don't believe that what National Fitness did was an accident...not based on what I've seen on the Internet. I feel like I was smart and/or cautious enough to fix this for myself, but there are a lot of people who may not be so lucky.
I'm also not convinced that American Family Fitness isn't culpable. I have to say, I'm surprised that they were so willing to fix this problem, and that they were able to wield the power to do so.
Hmmm...I'll have to sleep on it. I'll take the day off for Thanksgiving. But I may be back on Friday. This could be my new hobby.
More Visibility
Alright, time to raise the visibility of this blog.
I'm going to post my story to all of the major complaint web sites. I started with ripoffreport.com today. It takes 15-30 minutes for a complaint to show up, so I don't have a complaint number to share with you, but I may post it later.
I'm also going to try to contact others who have similar complaints.
I sent the following to the person who posted complaint #48 on 06/22/05 on complaints.com:
"I read your story on complaints.com about National Fitness Financial Systems. I am having a similar problem and I have started a blog to document my story: http://ihatenationalfitness.blogspot.com
I'm trying to generate some support , and if I can find enough "victims" of this company's questionable business practices to prove that fraud has occurred, I intend to launch a class action law suit.
Please let me know if you are interested."
In case you are wondering, I may actually try to launch a class action lawsuit. I found some new complaints about National Fitness today, so I'm fairly certain that there are enough people out there. I just have to find them.
I'm going to post my story to all of the major complaint web sites. I started with ripoffreport.com today. It takes 15-30 minutes for a complaint to show up, so I don't have a complaint number to share with you, but I may post it later.
I'm also going to try to contact others who have similar complaints.
I sent the following to the person who posted complaint #48 on 06/22/05 on complaints.com:
"I read your story on complaints.com about National Fitness Financial Systems. I am having a similar problem and I have started a blog to document my story: http://ihatenationalfitness.blogspot.com
I'm trying to generate some support , and if I can find enough "victims" of this company's questionable business practices to prove that fraud has occurred, I intend to launch a class action law suit.
Please let me know if you are interested."
In case you are wondering, I may actually try to launch a class action lawsuit. I found some new complaints about National Fitness today, so I'm fairly certain that there are enough people out there. I just have to find them.
Monday, November 19, 2007
Charges Disputed
I contacted my bank to dispute the fraudulent charges. Here's the message I sent to them:
"I would like to dispute this charge and 2 others. I do not want to close my account unless absolutely necessary.
I had a contractual obligation to National Fitness Financial Systems that ended on 9/9/07. I made National Fitness aware via written notice that I have fullfilled by obligation. I do not owe any money to National Fitness.
I did authorize National Fitness to debit from my checking account the monthly payments I initially owed, but I don't owe anything as of 9/9/07, so the debits they caused after that date are invalid. The written notice I sent "deauthorized" them to debit my account.
National Fitness has debited by account 3 times since our relationship ended. I dispute the following charges:
9/17/07 $5.90
10/15/07 $52.95
11/15/07 $52.95
I sent a cease and desist letter to National Fitness today, and I am demanding a refund. However, I want to ensure that they do not take anything else from my account.
I've put this in writing so that it will be easier understood. If you would like to discuss via telephone, please don't hesitate to call.
Here are answers to the questions you posed:
Have you authorized anyone else to use your card?
No
Did you participate in this transaction?
No
Do you still have possession of your card?
Yes
What are your reasons for disputing this charge (e.g., duplicate posting, incorrect amount, etc.)?
I don't owe anything to National Fitness"
"I would like to dispute this charge and 2 others. I do not want to close my account unless absolutely necessary.
I had a contractual obligation to National Fitness Financial Systems that ended on 9/9/07. I made National Fitness aware via written notice that I have fullfilled by obligation. I do not owe any money to National Fitness.
I did authorize National Fitness to debit from my checking account the monthly payments I initially owed, but I don't owe anything as of 9/9/07, so the debits they caused after that date are invalid. The written notice I sent "deauthorized" them to debit my account.
National Fitness has debited by account 3 times since our relationship ended. I dispute the following charges:
9/17/07 $5.90
10/15/07 $52.95
11/15/07 $52.95
I sent a cease and desist letter to National Fitness today, and I am demanding a refund. However, I want to ensure that they do not take anything else from my account.
I've put this in writing so that it will be easier understood. If you would like to discuss via telephone, please don't hesitate to call.
Here are answers to the questions you posed:
Have you authorized anyone else to use your card?
No
Did you participate in this transaction?
No
Do you still have possession of your card?
Yes
What are your reasons for disputing this charge (e.g., duplicate posting, incorrect amount, etc.)?
I don't owe anything to National Fitness"
Letters Away
My letter to National Fitness didn't go out on Saturday. The line at the post office was nearly at the door, and I was pressed for time. So I sent the letter today. I also wrote a letter to Richmond Fitness, the parent company of American Family Fitness. I sent both via Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation.
Here is the text of the letter to Richmond Fitness:
"Richmond Fitness, Inc.:
I am writing to alert you to the questionable business practices of National Fitness Financial Systems and to request your assistance in preventing an unnecessary lawsuit.
On June 13, 2006, I joined American Family Fitness. Approximately one year later, I moved to Atlanta, Georgia. On July 17, 2007, I phoned National Fitness to find out if there are any affiliated gyms within 25 miles of my new home. I provided my new address (and phone number) and I was informed that there are no affiliated gyms in my area. I requested information regarding cancellation and was informed that I must submit a letter of intent to cancel and proof of residency to the Membership Service Department in Layton, Utah, just as the contract stipulates.
On July 18, 2007, I sent a copy of my Georgia driver’s license and a cancellation letter to the address provided to me by National Fitness. I mailed the information via Priority service with address confirmation from my local post office. According to the USPS web site, my information was delivered July 21, so I expected my 30-day processing period to begin on that date.
I was away from home from July 30th through August 6th. When I returned, I found an undated letter from National Fitness. “We have new information regarding your inquiry and have been unable to reach you by phone,” it read. I checked my caller ID and found no calls from National Fitness and none from a Utah area code. There were no voice mail messages, either.
I called National Fitness on August 8th and spoke to Hammond (I started writing down the details at this point). Hammond informed me that National Fitness had received my documentation and everything was in order. I’d just need to submit a $100 payment and my 30-day processing period would begin.
You’ll notice at this point that I didn’t mention a $100 payment in the list of items National Fitness asked me to send when I phoned them on July 17th. That’s because I wasn’t asked to send $100. I foolishly assumed that National Fitness would charge $100 to my debit card, the way they’ve charged every payment since June, 2006.
“You haven’t authorized us to charge the $100. You’ve only authorized us to debit your monthly payment,” Hammond informed me. “I didn’t know I was supposed to authorize you. You’re authorized,” I replied. So, Hammond charged $100 to my debit card. The actual debit occurred on August 10.
After I hung up with Hammond, I checked my contract, where I authorized National Fitness to charge my debit card. It reads, “[a]s a convenience to me, I authorize my Bank to make payment to National Fitness for Richmond Fitness, Inc.” It does not specify the type of payment or an amount, so no distinction was made between automatically charging $52.95 monthly and charging $100 once. In my estimation, payment is payment; National Fitness was authorized to charge the cancellation fee and they chose not to do so. It appears to me that they were trying drag out the process.
Regardless, National Fitness received my official written cancellation notification on July 21 and my cancellation fee on August 10. Since the contract allows for a 30-day processing period, my contractual obligations ended no later than September 9.
On September 17, National Fitness debited $5.90 from my checking account. On October 15, National Fitness debited $52.95. And on November 15, National Fitness debited $52.95. None of these transactions were authorized. It seems that National Fitness has failed to honor my cancellation request.
This is not an isolated incident. If you do a little research, you will find similar stories abound. It would appear that National Fitness has a propensity to “lose” documentation or “accidently” reactivate accounts.As National Fitness was contracted by you, I request that you contact them on my behalf and do what you may to straighten this out. I also urge you to investigate the business practices of National Fitness and decide for yourself whether or not this is a company you want acting on your behalf.
I will happily provide additional information at your request. You may contact me at (404) xxx-xxxx or at the above address."
Here is the text of the letter to Richmond Fitness:
"Richmond Fitness, Inc.:
I am writing to alert you to the questionable business practices of National Fitness Financial Systems and to request your assistance in preventing an unnecessary lawsuit.
On June 13, 2006, I joined American Family Fitness. Approximately one year later, I moved to Atlanta, Georgia. On July 17, 2007, I phoned National Fitness to find out if there are any affiliated gyms within 25 miles of my new home. I provided my new address (and phone number) and I was informed that there are no affiliated gyms in my area. I requested information regarding cancellation and was informed that I must submit a letter of intent to cancel and proof of residency to the Membership Service Department in Layton, Utah, just as the contract stipulates.
On July 18, 2007, I sent a copy of my Georgia driver’s license and a cancellation letter to the address provided to me by National Fitness. I mailed the information via Priority service with address confirmation from my local post office. According to the USPS web site, my information was delivered July 21, so I expected my 30-day processing period to begin on that date.
I was away from home from July 30th through August 6th. When I returned, I found an undated letter from National Fitness. “We have new information regarding your inquiry and have been unable to reach you by phone,” it read. I checked my caller ID and found no calls from National Fitness and none from a Utah area code. There were no voice mail messages, either.
I called National Fitness on August 8th and spoke to Hammond (I started writing down the details at this point). Hammond informed me that National Fitness had received my documentation and everything was in order. I’d just need to submit a $100 payment and my 30-day processing period would begin.
You’ll notice at this point that I didn’t mention a $100 payment in the list of items National Fitness asked me to send when I phoned them on July 17th. That’s because I wasn’t asked to send $100. I foolishly assumed that National Fitness would charge $100 to my debit card, the way they’ve charged every payment since June, 2006.
“You haven’t authorized us to charge the $100. You’ve only authorized us to debit your monthly payment,” Hammond informed me. “I didn’t know I was supposed to authorize you. You’re authorized,” I replied. So, Hammond charged $100 to my debit card. The actual debit occurred on August 10.
After I hung up with Hammond, I checked my contract, where I authorized National Fitness to charge my debit card. It reads, “[a]s a convenience to me, I authorize my Bank to make payment to National Fitness for Richmond Fitness, Inc.” It does not specify the type of payment or an amount, so no distinction was made between automatically charging $52.95 monthly and charging $100 once. In my estimation, payment is payment; National Fitness was authorized to charge the cancellation fee and they chose not to do so. It appears to me that they were trying drag out the process.
Regardless, National Fitness received my official written cancellation notification on July 21 and my cancellation fee on August 10. Since the contract allows for a 30-day processing period, my contractual obligations ended no later than September 9.
On September 17, National Fitness debited $5.90 from my checking account. On October 15, National Fitness debited $52.95. And on November 15, National Fitness debited $52.95. None of these transactions were authorized. It seems that National Fitness has failed to honor my cancellation request.
This is not an isolated incident. If you do a little research, you will find similar stories abound. It would appear that National Fitness has a propensity to “lose” documentation or “accidently” reactivate accounts.As National Fitness was contracted by you, I request that you contact them on my behalf and do what you may to straighten this out. I also urge you to investigate the business practices of National Fitness and decide for yourself whether or not this is a company you want acting on your behalf.
I will happily provide additional information at your request. You may contact me at (404) xxx-xxxx or at the above address."
Saturday, November 17, 2007
Threat No. 1
I decided to write a letter to National Fitness. I may call them Monday, too, just for the fun of it. I figure it could provide entertaining fodder for this blog.
I'm trying to decide what to write as I post this entry. Hmmm...what do I need to say to legally cover my back side. I could include a copy of my original letter and a copy of the delivery notification, but they already know I've provided the appropriate documentation. Besides, why should I have to prove anything to them at this point? I'll prove it in court if I have to.
OK, here's what I'm sending. Direct and to the point:
"You have removed $111.70 from my checking account without my authorization.
My contractual obligations to National Fitness ended no later than 9/9/07. However, you have caused the following debits:
9/17/07 $5.90
10/15/07 $52.95
11/15/07 $52.95
You are not authorized to debit my account for any reason. You are hereby ordered to cease and desist. You are further ordered to refund $111.70 immediately.
Failure to comply will result in legal action."
I'm trying to decide what to write as I post this entry. Hmmm...what do I need to say to legally cover my back side. I could include a copy of my original letter and a copy of the delivery notification, but they already know I've provided the appropriate documentation. Besides, why should I have to prove anything to them at this point? I'll prove it in court if I have to.
OK, here's what I'm sending. Direct and to the point:
"You have removed $111.70 from my checking account without my authorization.
My contractual obligations to National Fitness ended no later than 9/9/07. However, you have caused the following debits:
9/17/07 $5.90
10/15/07 $52.95
11/15/07 $52.95
You are not authorized to debit my account for any reason. You are hereby ordered to cease and desist. You are further ordered to refund $111.70 immediately.
Failure to comply will result in legal action."
Game On
I actually started this blog back in August because I was anticipating having a problem canceling my membership. National Fitness drafted the $100 processing fee on August 10, but a monthly payment was not drafted in August, so I foolishly assumed that my cancellation request had been honored.
On September 17, National Fitness drafted $5.90 from my account. I couldn't figure out why they would have drafted such an odd amount, so I decided not to do anything about it right away. Actually, I was hoping that they would just take the $5.90 and go away, and it would be worth every penny to get rid of them.
On October 15, they drafted $52.95, the full membership fee. At this point, I knew that they had not honored my cancellation request, but I dreaded doing something about it. So, I put it off, and I put it off, until yesterday, when I realized they drafted $52.95 from my account again on November 15.
I sent messages to my bank about the charges. On the banking web site, there is a link next to each transaction that allows one to make an inquiry about the transaction. I clicked the inquiry links next to the two most recent National Fitness transactions and I typed this message:
"I did not authorize this transaction. This company has taken money from my account three times without my approval. Please let me know what needs to be done to prevent them from debiting my account and to recover money that has been removed. I will submit a similar transaction inquiry for the other 2 debits."
This morning, I received this reply:
"Our records indicate that this charge was a check card purchase from National Fitness in Layton, UT. This transaction occurred at 5:29 p.m. ET on 11/13 and, the card ending in 3637 was used. Unfortunately, we have no contact information for this merchant.
A...claim may be filed to dispute the charge; however, filing a dispute may require the closure of the card used to authorize the debit. If you would like to open a...claim, you may contact us at 800-xxxxxxx or send a reply to this email.
Should you choose to request a Reg E investigation by replying, please include answers to the following questions: Have you authorized anyone else to use your card? Did you participate in this transaction? Do you still have possession of your card? What are your reasons for disputing this charge (e.g., duplicate posting, incorrect amount, etc.)?"
I'm not sure what I want to do. It would be a huge hassle for me to have to close my account. Most of my monthly bills are paid from that account, and it was a huge hassle to get everything set up in the first place. And I'd have to be without my debit card for some period. I don't even carry cash anymore, so this would be a huge imposition. On the other hand, it could solve the problem nicely. I'd still have to pursue a refund (I think...or maybe the bank would have to pursue it).
There's a link somewhere on this blog to a story someone posted about National Fitness drafting a closed credit card years after the poster canceled his membership. The credit card company reopened the account! And the poster was still liable for the charges somehow. I don't want the same to happen to me.
Still, I should probably dispute the charges, if only to add to my documentation of the problem. I'll do it a little later today.
I was lying in bed this morning thinking about this:
$100 + 5.90 = $105.90.
$105.90 / 2 = $52.95
Obviously, National Fitness treated the processing fee like a regular monthly payment and a partial payment.
[sigh] I don't feel like dealing with this.
On September 17, National Fitness drafted $5.90 from my account. I couldn't figure out why they would have drafted such an odd amount, so I decided not to do anything about it right away. Actually, I was hoping that they would just take the $5.90 and go away, and it would be worth every penny to get rid of them.
On October 15, they drafted $52.95, the full membership fee. At this point, I knew that they had not honored my cancellation request, but I dreaded doing something about it. So, I put it off, and I put it off, until yesterday, when I realized they drafted $52.95 from my account again on November 15.
I sent messages to my bank about the charges. On the banking web site, there is a link next to each transaction that allows one to make an inquiry about the transaction. I clicked the inquiry links next to the two most recent National Fitness transactions and I typed this message:
"I did not authorize this transaction. This company has taken money from my account three times without my approval. Please let me know what needs to be done to prevent them from debiting my account and to recover money that has been removed. I will submit a similar transaction inquiry for the other 2 debits."
This morning, I received this reply:
"Our records indicate that this charge was a check card purchase from National Fitness in Layton, UT. This transaction occurred at 5:29 p.m. ET on 11/13 and, the card ending in 3637 was used. Unfortunately, we have no contact information for this merchant.
A...claim may be filed to dispute the charge; however, filing a dispute may require the closure of the card used to authorize the debit. If you would like to open a...claim, you may contact us at 800-xxxxxxx or send a reply to this email.
Should you choose to request a Reg E investigation by replying, please include answers to the following questions: Have you authorized anyone else to use your card? Did you participate in this transaction? Do you still have possession of your card? What are your reasons for disputing this charge (e.g., duplicate posting, incorrect amount, etc.)?"
I'm not sure what I want to do. It would be a huge hassle for me to have to close my account. Most of my monthly bills are paid from that account, and it was a huge hassle to get everything set up in the first place. And I'd have to be without my debit card for some period. I don't even carry cash anymore, so this would be a huge imposition. On the other hand, it could solve the problem nicely. I'd still have to pursue a refund (I think...or maybe the bank would have to pursue it).
There's a link somewhere on this blog to a story someone posted about National Fitness drafting a closed credit card years after the poster canceled his membership. The credit card company reopened the account! And the poster was still liable for the charges somehow. I don't want the same to happen to me.
Still, I should probably dispute the charges, if only to add to my documentation of the problem. I'll do it a little later today.
I was lying in bed this morning thinking about this:
$100 + 5.90 = $105.90.
$105.90 / 2 = $52.95
Obviously, National Fitness treated the processing fee like a regular monthly payment and a partial payment.
[sigh] I don't feel like dealing with this.
Saturday, August 11, 2007
I'm Up
The blog is up and ready for anti-business. I'll be posting new content every day or so until I achieve satisfaction, so check back often.
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